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Friday International Webcast with Lyndon LaRouche
3 October 2014
Transcript MATTHEW OGDEN: Good evening. It’s October 3rd, 2014. My name is Matthew Ogden, and I would like to welcome all of you viewing this webcast tonight to our weekly broadcast from larouchepac.com. I’m joined in the studio by Megan Beets and Benjamin Deniston of the LaRouche PAC Scientific Team, as well as Mr. LaRouche. We would like to begin with our institutional question of the evening, which reads as follows: “Mr. LaRouche, important policy debates are ongoing at a high level as to what the future of the United States space program must be. The recent successes of both the Chinese and Indian missions to the Moon and to Mars, respectively, stand in stark contrast to the current state of the U.S. program under Obama’s policy of budget cuts and privatization. Although an important agreement was just signed this week between the Indian Space Research Organization [ISRO] and NASA to launch a joint satellite mission known as NISAR — or the NASA India Synthetic Aperture Radar mission — designed to measure and observe deformations in the Earth’s surface. However, the spirit of the space programs in both China and India currently represent a quality of vision and future orientation, which has clearly been lost in recent decades here in the United States. In the words of one of the chief lunar scientists for the European Space Agency, “The Chinese have a long-term view of their lunar exploration. They think in terms of the next 100 years.” In this context, your input will be very important for informing the ongoing policy debate here in the United States. Would you please lay out your vision for the U.S. space program to take us from where we are now to where we need to be in the future? Thank you.” LYNDON LAROUCHE: The first thing you have to know is that the common view of space and science is foolishness. For a long time, it’s been understood that space, or space as we’ve known it, including that of ancient knowledge, in terms of the ancient leaders of our economy, that what the principle of space is not an object. It is not an object; it is not something that measures something per se. Rather, it is a function within the Solar System, but a part of the Solar System which is not understood literally. In other words, there is no literal scientific explanation of the Solar System. Rather, what there is, is the Solar System acts as a mysterious symbol of scientific principle. And that principle warns us and guides us, to investigate what the physical causes may be for the phenomena we see in space. In other words, we do not have a direct observation of space and time. That does not exist. For example, we have what is being done in China. You have at least three stages of the development of the physical economy of China. And that fits that, but there are also others who have understood that before then — long before then, including Kepler. Kepler was the first person to understand this problem, and no one has done much better than Kepler himself has done, in order to understand what the meaning, of mankind’s life is. In other words, what most people think is life, what they think is experience, is merely a mask; it’s an image with no substance to it. But it has a power of suggestion; and all you can get from it is a power of suggestion. Now then, you have to find out ways in which you can make physical expressions, physical principles, physical development, which cannot be made by optical methods. Therefore, what you do then, is you conduct experiments of the type like Kepler’s model initial experiment, and those things are applied then to space, space and time. And they give us an indication of what we must do, to understand what we call space and time. So, we live in a world, in which the general opinion on the formation of science is actually incompetent. And we only have a relative number of few true scientists who are truly attempting at science. Only a few actually understand at least the principles, of what the physical principles are of this. And the best model today is found in the production by China, in the three terms of its development now. And what we in the United States do, and in other places will do, and what is implicitly coming from India now, this is a part of the same kind of idea. It may be a little different in the way it’s expressed, but the principle of the thing is the same. And therefore, we come to a time when mankind must rise to a true human maturity. Modern man, as we have previously known it, is not sane; not in fact. And what we have to do, it’s come to the point that we have to re-examine what we’ve learned from people like Kepler long ago. And we have to learn that principle and learn how to apply it. Don’t think you can make deductive decisions in defining what the principles of the Solar System are. If you think that, you’re an idiot! So the best thing to do is, don’t be an idiot. MEGAN BEETS: So Lyn, I’d just like to elaborate a little bit on what you just brought up about Kepler, and the uniqueness of the insight of Kepler and the importance of what he did. But I’d just like to start by quoting the Prime Minister of India Narendra Modi, upon the achievement of the successful putting into orbit of the Mars Orbiter Mission. He said a lot in the speech that he gave from the control center, but just briefly, he said, “India has successfully reached Mars. Our scientists have achieved this in the first attempt. This is the first time in the world. History has been created today. We have dared to reach out into the unknown, and have achieved the near-impossible. Let today’s success only drive us with even greater vigor and conviction. Let us set ourselves even more challenging goals, and strive harder to achieve them. Let us push our boundaries, and then push some more.” So, I think this spirit and complete dedication of the apprehension of the unknown; the dedication to achieve beyond what is currently possible, especially as it comes to the achievement of acting with and upon Mars, recalls the legacy of Johannes Kepler. Who, as a relatively young man, between the years of 1601 and 1609 wrestled intensely with coming to an understanding of what was the orbit of Mars. What was Mars? Not as an observation, not as an object per se, but understanding what animates and is the identity of the planet Mars. And Kepler achieved this not by putting together or assembling the measurements which had been made by his predecessors; not by deriving from sense-perception what we think we see as an object. Kepler demonstrated that the sense perception and the measurements could not account for the action of Mars. And in fact, could never account for the action of Mars, no matter how accurate these so-called measurements were. Now, what could? It was a conception. It was an observation that Kepler made not of the Solar System or the sky overhead, but it was an observation that Kepler made of his own mind. And the derivation from his mind of a new physical conception of what was animating the orbit. Now, upon re-deriving the orbit of Mars now as a shadow of his own mind, Kepler could account for what this was. Now, over the next ten years, from 1609 to 1618, Kepler again struggled not with just one individual orbit, but with the question of the Solar System. What is the Solar System? Now again, he is not acting from a collection of observations, or from a collection of the individual orbits. But it was in once again the apprehension of what could not be seen, and it again came in the putting away of the tables of data and deriving a conception of a system in which every part and every moment of action within that system was a fossil and a shadow being cast by a single creative motion of the Sun. Now this shadow again, as re-derived from this observation that Kepler of his own mind, laid before him a shadow which was coherent with the well-tempered tuned harmonics of the major and minor musical systems. Demonstrating that what Man first observed in his own practice in Classical art, the foundations of that actually are the fabric which underlay the Solar System of which he is a part. Now just to come back to today, with the actions of China, with the dedication of China and the dedication of India. Because of the revolution that Kepler unleashed in science, man has the capability not just to subsume the Solar System in thought, but now to subsume the Solar System in action. And our ability to begin to act on and change and govern these parts of the Solar System which now establishes — I think puts us on the cusp of great new revolution, where man is not merely having insight into the universe as if separate from himself, but is now poised to gain a greater insight into what he truly is as a species. So, I’d like to put that on the table and give you a chance to respond. LAROUCHE: Well, let’s take an example, because you laid out enough detail on this thing to have presented the case as such, minus something or two. Take the case of China in general, in terms of the development of the mapping system, the economic system in nearby space, in China. Look at now at Modi recently in New York City. Now examine Modi’s speech very carefully. Don’t try to interpret it like some idiot would try to simply interpret something. But rather, say what is implied here? What is this statement say, which we could not say in mere words? And you have that again and again and again, in New York City, by a great leader who put things in various terms, again and again and again. Each statement he made had a coherent meaning, but also a differentiated meaning. And you would see, watch the whole audience, the mass audience. Look at the excitement which this grand audience went through in this experience. And you see here is a man who is a true element of genius, because he’s got something in him, an insight into the system of society, which no one then had really appreciated that much. And his understanding and appreciation of the principles which were buried in the expression of his speeches, and what the results were of the statements he made in the United States and elsewhere. All of these were essential, in which none of the literal words, the silly little literal words of somebody who wants to keep babbling words out of their mouth. Such people are silly people, and they don’t convey much information of any use. It is the people who speak in these terms, like Modi, who represent the real creative minds that drive upwards the creative powers of the human mind. And in which the powers of the human mind are registered. It’s not words as such; it is not images as such. It’s not what you’re taught; it’s not what you repeat. It’s your insight into the Solar System, into the process; and that’s what you see from this process. Take all the literal words and brush them aside. They don’t really mean anything; only fools quote them. But take the people who are not fools, who understand that the Solar System, for example, like the universe, conveys the only true knowledge, not as text or some other kind of foolish thing. It’s this rising above ordinary speech, ordinary ideas into insight, into the creative process within the Solar System, as in the case of Kepler. Kepler’s discoveries are a model for the true principles of the foundations of all physical science. And what we see now with the work that’s being done by Modi, the work that’s being done by other great people, you see it’s coming out. The truth is coming out. And you find that all those old big-mouthed people, who are out there giving lectures, are the silly asses which you must avoid. OGDEN: Well, one thing I found very provocative that you said earlier this week, was what Modi is doing, what Xi Jinping are doing now, are bringing together various aspects of the human race that have never been brought together before, and putting them together in a completely new system. And you said our task is to bring these forces here on Earth together as Kepler did with the forces of the Solar System, which I found very provocative. Now Modi called for a mass movement for development. He put it in ironical terms; he said we’re celebrating the birthday of Mohandas Gandhi, and Gandhi won the struggle for Independence. Now we have to answer his struggle and have a mass movement for development. I wanted to read one thing that Kesha Rogers issued this week. Kesha is the former candidate for the United States Senate in the state of Texas. Last week, we read a statement congratulating the Indian people on their success with the Mars orbiter from her. This week, she issued a statement called, “Let Us Join Modi’s Mass Movement for Development.” This is a short excerpt. She says: “The fight for development has become the defining mission for the future. Leading nations of the BRICS, along with other nations throughout South America and Southwest Asia, have made building great projects, jobs for their youth, the scientific progress for their nation, the key to lifting their people out of despair. On the other hand, the United States and the trans-Atlantic system have continued to deny the youth of their nations a future, with now more than 50% unemployment among the youth of Greece, Spain, and Italy, the so-called ‘developed’ world.” And then she issues a call. She says, “LaRouche and his movement are leading the charge in the United States to bring the U.S. into joining with the BRICS nations to crush the evil policies of the same British Empire which Gandhi sought to put an end to; the Empire which is still our enemy today. America must join the BRICS and other allied nations to crush that Empire once and for all.” So, I wanted to know, Lyn, if you could say more about your idea of bringing together these forces into a new combination, a new unit of action, in the context of what Modi has called for as a mass movement for development? LAROUCHE: OK. Well, many people in the United States and elsewhere, are essentially idiots, but they are considered authorities. Now what this mean is, in effect, is the idea that you as a person once having lived as a mortal human being, but now having passed on, that you still have a mortal aspect and power to living human beings. You don’t; you don’t! When you are dead, you are dead. But! what is death in this case? Well, death is replaced by the ability of people who have developed themselves, to ideas which were beyond anything they had ever learned before. And those ideas are then translated into forms of changes, processes, higher developments of processes, such that an individual who once, now dead, can rise to a position of greatness beyond anything they ever achieved as a living person. The true ambition of any true human being is to accept death as a matter of dealing with a nuisance. Because it’s from what you do, what you’re able to live out, what you’re able to cause to be developed in mankind, this is the true achievement of mankind. And all this stuff of words and your achievements and your reputations, all these kinds of things will be in the end, sheer rubbish. And therefore smart people, intelligent people, wish to become immortal, but what is immortal? Immortal is simply the same thing that Kepler understood in his principle. Kepler designated immortals, and the meaning of the immortal. He took the perplexity of trying to deal with the explanation of immortality: Is it tangible, or is it not? How do we locate it? And the solution is there. Now, you look at China: China is going through a development, a qualitative development of the population of China, in the exploration process. Same thing, what we’re getting in India today, now, just freshly off the ticket, rather, same thing. How to get rid of all the thieves, the thieves that steal people’s money, that rob them : These are to be rubbed away, they have no right to live. There’s no purpose in their continuing to live. We don’t need them. As a matter of fact, we have a contrary view, that we should have never needed them. What we need is the child being developed into something greater, than that child had ever been considered. The fact that a child achieves a state of development, in mankind, which that child as such had never achieved, and it’s the ability of the child, to achieve that quality of life of which the grandparents and parents are joyful, because they know they’ve produced a child, who is richer in his contributions to human life, than they were. They don’t cry about it, they don’t complain about it, they’re happy about it! They rejoice about it! And the function of mankind is to accept death, in the normal sense of death, but to accept at the same time, immortality, the quality of creating for the future, the things that you could never have achieved while you lived. OGDEN: Well, I want to ask a question about that. Today you have world leaders who know that their very lives are threatened because of what they’re doing. An example from this week is a speech which Cristina Fernández de Kirchner of Argentina made, where she acknowledged, not only threats to her country, threats from the vulture funds, threats from Obama, threats of sanctions, but threats to herself: She said, if I traveled back to the United States would I be arrested? Would I be imprisoned? And, she said, my very life is threatened, identifying so-called intelligence reports about threats to her life coming from the Middle East, saying, no, no, no, if something happens to me, look to the north. Look to the north. Now, similar things are happening in other countries: We know what was done to Russia with the color revolution in Ukraine, and the sponsorship of this Nazi coup by Victoria Nuland and others. They’re attempting same thing in Hongkong against China, with John Kerry openly supporting these protesters in Hongkong at a press conference with the Chinese Foreign Minister, who said, get out of our business! We’re a sovereign country, don’t violate international law! We would hope that you are going to stay out of China’s internal affairs, and respect China’s sovereignty. This is part of one, big program. This is the Blair doctrine, of Tony Blair, regime change, “right to protect,” color revolutions. And then, as I mentioned, in the case of Argentina, you have what Cristina Fernández acknowledged openly as threats to her very life. Now, one example that comes to my mind, is Lyn, you had a long, long history of involvement in India, for example, with a great leader of India, Indira Gandhi, who was a victim of the British Empire, who was killed for... LAROUCHE: She was a very close friend of mine. OGDEN: And who was a very, very close friend of yours. And what I want to know from you, is, we know what the British Empire has done to leaders in the past, such as Mrs. Gandhi, and others; and now we know what Cristina Fernández is openly acknowledging in the present: Anybody who has the courage to fight them and to create a new system. What must these countries do to defend themselves in the fact of this threat? LAROUCHE: You must, first of all, learn the art of immortality. Without that you’re nothing. Now, most people have no idea of what immortality might signify, because they don’t understand the nature of what is the true mortality: that mankind is a species, like no other! No other species in the whole system, the Solar System or beyond, is known to us as existing, none! Therefore, what’s the meaning of the life of the human individual? Well, the meaning is located inasmuch, as the development or the self-development of that human individual or that group of individuals, may be able to achieve. So therefore, it is not immortality as the successful experience of a past death, which defines the thing. The thing is, that even when life is taken away from you, are you still doing the kinds of things which create a state of the future of humanity, which humanity has never known before? This is the principle of immortality, as taught by all people who understood the idea of human immortality. The objective is to reach human immortality, that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind, than ever existed before! Now, she [Mrs. Gandhi] fits that quality, as I knew her personally; I know other people who had the same qualities, the same types of quality. Many of us have died or will have died, like me, soon. But! we will have achieved, individually, an immortality which the cheat will never experience. BEETS: So, I’d like to bring up something which draws a counterpoint to the outlook that you just expressed, and this is something which is also a counterpoint to the mass movement for development which is being led by she [President Fernández] and Modi and others. And what I’d like to raise is what can only be seen as the intentional policy of genocide against the world population being carried out against the human species, by the British Empire, and particular in the case of the outbreak of the Ebola epidemic in Africa, and also, now, what we’re seeing as the outbreak of accompanying epidemics in South America and in the United States. Now, this effect is the direct result of a continual refusal of the right of these nations, and the peoples in them, to develop themselves, now leading to the effect of mass death. And this is something which has been stated explicitly by the British Empire. So, for example, take Lord Bertrand Russell, who, on the issue of what he saw as the necessary population reduction, said in 1951, in an essay “The Impact of Science on Society”: “War ... has hitherto been disappointing in this respect ... but perhaps bacteriological war may prove more effective. If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full....” Now, take somebody who’s still alive today, take Prince Philip, the Consort of the Queen, who said in 1988 to a reporter, “The more people there are, the more resources they’ll consume, the more pollution they’ll create, the more fighting they will do. We have no option. If it isn’t controlled voluntarily, it will be controlled involuntarily by an increase in disease, starvation and war. In the event I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation.” Now that intention is exactly what’s hitting the world today. In Africa, the Ebola epidemic, according to the most recent reports, has resulted in 3,000 deaths, out of what will be an estimated 1.4 million people infected come January of next year. Now, in reality this number is very likely going to be much, much higher. Normal containment procedures and procedures that deal with epidemics are completely powerless in the face of this. No nation has the resources to track and treat what really amounts to 10 times the number infected, to get control of this thing. The charity organizations that can usually can play a role in assisting a nation such as these are completely overstretched, due to the other policies of the British Empire around the planet creating refugee crises and so forth. In terms of Ebola, there has already been one confirmed case in the United States, in Texas, with reports of a second case which is currently being treated at Howard University Hospital in Washington, D.C. However, as is seen with these two cases already in the United States, this is something affecting the so-called Third World: This is a global crisis. Not only did one expert refer to the outbreak of Ebola as a possible “Black Death of the 21st century,” but we’re already seeing the outbreak of other diseases in the United States, particularly of a virus, which is related to the Poliovirus, the Enterovirus D68, or EV-D68, which has already infected an estimate 2,000 children in the United States, killing over 80 of them. Now, if these epidemics, including one in South America are not addressed immediately and brought under control, we will see a total genocide, as has been the intention of the British Empire. We will see something which you have warned about for a long time, as a result of the reaction of the British Empire to their dying system. Your wife, Helga Zepp-LaRouche has stressed that we must act immediately to develop an emergency policy to counter this before total panic sets in. So, I’d like to put that on the table, and give you a chance to respond. LAROUCHE: The first issue, the obvious one is, how do we stop this? And how do we stop those who do this? And how do we mobilize the forces to do that? Now, this is like the general idea of the very life and death of the human beings anyway? What’re we doing to promote human life and its productivity? Because the very purpose of having had human life, is based on that. So anyone who is going for reduction, of population, is a monster! A monster which should be eliminated as soon as possible. Because their existence is the greatest threat to humanity. Whereas, on the other hand, what we can create as mankind, contrary to the whole British system and to similar kinds of things, is exactly the opposite. We have the power, of making man permanently immortal. We have that power. We may not know how to do that, now; we may not have developed the power to do that, but we know that is the meaning of things. We also know that what we learn from the stars, from Kepler, what we learn, is that lesson: That the purpose of mankind is to become an immortal creature. And to be an immortal creature, does not live like a piece of flesh immortally. The immortal creature is the ability to live, to consume one’s own existence, to the purpose of creating things, of essential value to humanity’s very nature; not just good things, but to create for mankind, achievements of the human species, which go beyond any other living creature, or any known living creature. And that concept of immortality, is the only truth. And therefore, the first thing you have to want to do, is get rid of the idea that there is any alternative to human immortality. Dead things, by their nature, die! Only mankind as a creative force inside the Solar System, and beyond, is worth anything! The rest, is sooner or later, usually sooner, ended as rubbish. DENISTON: So we’ve got one final question for you, and actually picking up exactly on this theme of creation. There’s an exciting report on a new development, regarding China’s major water project, the Great South Water North Project. If people don’t know, this project generally has three components: There’s an eastern component which has been completed recently; there’s a western component which is still in the planning phases. And on Sept. 29th, it’s been announced that all 55 components of this middle section, this central section, have passed their final inspection, and the central section of this major water project in China is now set to begin operations this month. Now, this is truly a major achievement. This central section runs 1,400 km, longer than the length of California. It’s going to deliver, initially somewhere in the range of approaching 10 cubic km of freshwater a year, up to 14 has been listed as the max range, and that’s on the scale of the current flow rate of the Colorado River itself. So this is mankind creating a Colorado River the length of California, to bring water to millions, 19 major cities in northern China, including Beijing, which itself has a population of 21 million people. So this is a major, major achievement; a longer and larger water project than California’s great water projects, which itself is a testament to mankind’s capabilities. Now, just to make a somewhat obvious point, I thought it was interesting, I thought back to November of last year, the Schiller Institute had a conference in California on the Pacific orientation. [http://newparadigm.schillerinstitute.com/ los-angeles-conference-2-november-2013/] And a Professor Howard Chang had participated. Now he had played a significant role in contributing to the Three Gorges Dam project in China, a major water expert. And he made an interesting point, he just said, you’ve got to realize how similar the United States and China are in many respects: They’re roughly the same size in terms of territorial area; they both have a very similar challenge with this water issue; they both have regions with abundant flows of water, and they have major regions that are deserts with a lack of flow of water. So I just think it creates a clear juxtaposition, what China has just accomplished with this, the beginning operation of their central section of their South Water North Project, against what’s not being done and what hasn’t been done in the Western United States, when we know that many projects have been available to address this issue for decades. And I just think it’s in line with what you were just saying, Lyn, of a demonstration of what mankind is really capable of, a demonstration of what is possible for mankind. So, I’d like to get your chance to comment on the significance of this. LAROUCHE: Well, for me, it’s simple, as you know. It’s simple in the ways I’ve just determined before, in these remarks I made. Because the question is, if you really want to ask yourself, what’s the meaning of a human being? And don’t start by saying, how do you interpret a human being? You don’t do that, that’s stupid. What you do is you say, what is the meaning of this peculiar animal, called “human being”? What is there about the individual human being, when achieved, which does these miraculous things, that no other form of known living animal life is capable of doing? So this is a unique thing. Then, you look at the power of mankind. The power of what the human species is capable of achieving against all comparable, or more than comparable species? What is it, that mankind has the power to create, in himself, in herself, to create an ability, which transcends the Solar System, and beyond? And Kepler already showed that, in his own way. It was a relatively modest way, but it was a clear way, and everything in all modern science, real modern science, or the real science, is based on Kepler. Because Kepler created a realization, of what the earlier meanings of Christianity, for example, had meant. And it was this creativity and his achievement, his specific insight, in the difference between the Moon, the planets and so forth. And that was it! So we, similarly, are not animals; we are not objects in space. We are a miraculous species which is capable of creating itself from where there was initially nothing. That we are able to turn ourselves, from something that seems to have been nothing, and if we do the right thing, not as a matter of miracles, but a matter of devotion, a matter of intention, hmm?—then we are also potentially capable, of being creative in the same sense that Kepler was. And if you read Kepler, read his paradoxical arguments, it’s precisely that. And you go back again to the original state of the system, same thing. What the same thing of all the great scientists, the greatest of scientists, same thing? So what’s your achievement? Your achievement is to become the greatest scientist of your time, to create things that had never been created before, before your time. To bring to the universe blessings, which were not possible until you lived! The meaning, the purpose of your life is to live that kind of life! And when you live that, and can learn to enjoy that, as the meaning of your existence, then you’ve achieved about as much, as any human being will ever achieve. OGDEN: Well, with that said, I would like to bring a conclusion to our webcast here, today. Thank you for joining us, thank you very much, both Ben and Megan, and thank you, Lyn. Stay tuned, and good night. |